146723-wildstar-not-for-this-average-player-page-5
Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4, Page 5, Page 6, Page 7, Page 8, Page 9, Page 10, Page 11 Content ---- ---- As a returning player who just rolled a Medic with the intent to heal dungeons while leveling, I'd say Wildstar is designed to completely and totally discourage dungeons while leveling. The reason being that in order to have gear for dungeons, tanks and healers have to gimp themselves in every other aspect of the game. They have to choose support gear over assault gear and thus severely slow down their questing/solo gameplay. I was choosing support gear for a while and after realizing that I spend 90% of my time outside of dungeons, I gave up on gimpimg myself 90% of the time so I could heal other players 10% of the time. I'd honestly really REALLY love to heal dungeons as I'm leveling, but I feel like I'm penalized for wanting to play that way. | |} ---- Well, calling someone "completely retarded" because how they play a video game is at best mean spirited. I can certainly see how it would seem elitist for someone who is good at something to call someone who is bad at it "completely retarded". I get your point (and they guy who originally said it), that people will moderate skills can do well, not just "elite" players, but the words chosen do sound pretty darn arrogant and undermine the point that was trying to be made. | |} ---- That was exactly my feeling on my Medic as well. Hell, I only rolled Medic to heal group content. But realized exactly what you posted. So, I stopped bothering with leveling dungeons. Which is not the choice I wanted to make, mind you. I have SWTOR for single-player focused leveling, that isn't what I wanted here. Edited December 4, 2015 by Vanguardian | |} ---- I 100% agree at the poor choice of words... I got what he meant but I'm not defending his choice of words - in defending the message he meant when he used it. I work with disabled people and I will never be mad at someone for being "retarded", that isn't a choice... what IS a choice is not taking any effort to make sure you come prepared and try when other people when you dont. This I'd where the frustration cones from, and while u am ashamed of it, people who suck at pve who get an attitude when you ask them if they need the boss explained, or when you give them pointers make me want to kill all human. And aurin ofc. That said I am not proud to admit when I get frustrated by PVE players not trying... not doing any dps but not bring interrupts ect, I have used the term "downy"... then I think of the handful of people with down syndrome I do know and those guys are the happiest people and wouldn't want to hurt a soul Then I get those feels. So really, I've gotten that mad too - it's shameful but I think everyone here knows what he MEANT. And it wouldn't be elitist either way... elitist is a very specific word, and it doesnt stand for "someone who excludes someone else" which is what a few forum goers seem to think. It has criteria... by that logic we can extend it a step further by saying "lfm worldbosses lvl 50 only" is elitist because they won't accept sub 50s, which can technically beat on the boss too... someone who cannot complete the dungeon with a party at their performance level does not need to be in dungeons... their hurting the experience for the other 4 people by not being prepared/practiced/informed... just like pvp if you can't contribute meaningful damage because of lack of gear/runes I won't even care if your slammed your bar full of interrupts and a buff/debuff support build... when I first got back into the game on my warrior I had unruned 1800 gear, so I took defensive grid, ran powerlink, and just peeled for whatever bg hero slinger I had in my matches... | |} ---- Being slightly trolly (not at you man)... but... are we going to ban music because Ritard. (aka ritardando, meaning to slow tempo) is on sheet music? (was a band nerd joke back in the day) | |} ---- I bet you played the fagoti ;D Band kids were messed up man... us chorus kids laughed at jokes our parents would laugh at, then band kids are giving helping hands on the bus to districts... | |} ---- ---- No :P, actually I played the Sackbut (Trombone). I still have my horn too, just don't play as much. I was a music major, but the school I went to was mainly for band directors and I wanted to be in a symphony. However, this was around 2006 when big symphonies were struggling so I made the choice to drop out, come home and start working. Didn't want to be a starving musician or a band director, now looking back, I probably wouldn't have minded being a band director. And yeah, band kids are nowhere near innocent like most people are led to believe. Can't tell you how many times I walked past rocking buses at major marching band contests (where it's a parking lot full of like 75+ buses. Edited December 4, 2015 by h4vix | |} ---- ---- ---- I'm hoping any rewards/bonuses for veterans to bribe them to run with new players are just purely fluff/cosmetic things. When you have people running dungeons purely for the (gameplay enhancing) rewards then it becomes more about speedrunning and draggong dragging along newbies who have no clue and get no support/help whatsoever. It would cause more harm than good. It got so bad in TERA that they completely ripped it out and haven't revisited any kind of 'mentoring' system whatsoever. I'd hate to see the same happen in WildStar. So I do support getting tokens/achievements and cosmetic fluff. I don't support gameplay enhancing rewards like runes, fragments, etc etc that speedrunners will abuse lowbies to obtain easier. EDIT: 'draggong' is not a word, oops. Edited December 5, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- ---- Gimping? Yea I suppose, but only a little bit tbh. Calling it "severely slow down" is too extreme. I collect both sets while leveling on all my characters, and I skip ahead in quests (ie: going to Wilderrun at level 32 etc). It's a pain in terms of bag space, but since I use the Gear addon, keeping track of upgrades is as swiftly as typing /gear #. Sometimes I chose support gear over an assault, depending on which is a bigger upgrade. I've made it to level 50 while using a level 8 gadget lol. Tanking/healing normal dungeons also hasn't been an issue. Sure, wipes do happen (hello Shallos), but bosses still die and dungeons still get completed. Dungeons are also easier now, especially since most of the levelers are alts who already knew mechanics. Accidental trash adds are more difficult than bosses anyway. The hardest part is getting people to coordinate interrupts. :lol: | |} ---- "skip ahead in quests", "pain in terms of bag space", "use the Gear addon", "most levelers are alts" There's a few problems there that as a developer would make me scream and few that would worry the crap out of me. It's doable, but everything you stated means the game isn't presenting it in a way that's intuitive and/or easy to understand. While they may be looking at addressing a couple of the issues, a few of those seem a bit more problematic. | |} ---- Nope, he said it will be more currency, bonus XP, those kind of rewards. Nothing game changing from what he described. I believe they have seen what that has done to other games. | |} ---- Yeah, I agree. | |} ---- If the currency bonus is significant enough you can be sure people will be speedrunning their "mentoring runs" because having lots of in-game currency IS game changing. You can buy more runes, unlock more slots, reroll those slots, buy things on the AH, etcetera. On the ohter hand, if it's not significant then none of the target veterans will really bother with it. | |} ---- Pretty much this. You can't incentivize something and then hope people won't do the bare minimum required to get the incentive, that's not how life works in the real world. If there's people willing to phish the random queue to do just one instance, there's people willing to completely ignore the new player they're supposed to be "mentoring" while they speedrun the content. | |} ---- Skipping quests is purely a preference thing though. Some people are just in a big damn hurry to get to 50, and red quests get them there the quickest. My first 3 characters I completed each zones before moving on to the next (omg that is *so* 2014), including all path missions. What I did skip was crafting. But with the double-XP weekend? It's all about getting to 50 as fast as possible. Yes, the part about levellers being alts is a concern. I did mention in either party chat or whispers to friends about that fact in each normal dungeon I was in. it's your typical said anything or already knows mechanics type of group... much like vet pug groups nowadays. Luckily, since they were leveling dungeons, people tend to do all objectives for extra XP. Once in a while, you will get a new player, and they also don't say anything either - but it's pretty obvious they are new based on how they move (or rather, don't move) during fights. While the other 3 points are preference/optional/whatever..... the game definitely needs a gear management feature. They already have something like that in Costumes (and it only came out in Drop 5, ~11 months after game launched), so maybe we'll see default gear management in May of 2016. :P | |} ---- You're right, I didn't think about it it like that. I hope they find a good middle ground, where it's worth the effort but not high enough to cause a lot of issues. | |} ---- ---- ---- What i'm reading is "people are stupid and/or people don't pay attention to things" Is that right? Maybe they should take some responsibility? | |} ---- Be glad these people aren't playing SkyForge. That game has no healers or reliable healing (outside of ultimate skills and untradeable consumables on long cooldowns). If WildStar really wanted to be revolutionary, they could've gone for a similar approach to 'Support' being 'shield before a big skill' rather than 'heal up after it hits'. Put far less reliance on one or two support in a group and make support something that everyone helps contribute to the fight. But I believe Guild Wars 2 did that and their entire community either left the game or complained about lack of healers till they relented and put one in the game for the expansion pack release. The MMO genre can't really evolve past the tab-target crap of WoW or the pre-WoW days until players can learn to take responsibility for their actions (and inactions) regarding performance. This game needs more tutorials and a bit more hand-holding on HOW to do certain things like runing and such. Too many unintuitive spots in the game design. A game can have massive depth without tons of complexity. Chess is a great example of 'easy to play yet difficult to master' and each piece has a role but no ONE piece is always better than everything all the time. Even the lowly pawns serve their purpose (cannon fodder) at one point or another. | |} ---- Well time to pack our bags and ship out then :P | |} ---- I'd rather that nobody leave. At worst, muting the toxic cupcakes from public chat and banning them from doing random queues for PvE and/or PvP. But even those toxic ones are useful to use as cannon fodder every now and then ;) Personal responsibility in general is something that so few people seem to understand. It boggles the mind how so many so-called 'adults' can operate in US society without this basic thing. Much of the blame (from my experience) is this 'customer always right' garbage that has spread around in the customer service industry. It has lead to a ton of abuse of employees (and some managers), raised prices for everyone (because they aren't going to lose their profits), and created this odd dissonance where fully-grown adults think it is ok to yell at and treat another human being like dirt without consequences. And now that kind of thinking has spread out like a virus into other aspects including gaming. Even gamers can't just stick their heads in the sand and hope every problem will go away. It has to be confronted sooner or later. Personal responsibility means that people need to wake up and realize what they want from an MMO experience. WoW already has the well-worn niche of 'casual little to no effort' MMO for easy shinines. FFXIV is the sub-only MMO that requires a great deal of effort to do end-game raiding. WildStar is similar to FFXIV in dungeon and raid design but is F2P and sci-fi instead of fantasy. It is an original property to boot. FFXIV has no problem making money now while WildStar had to drastically bleed subs for a year before NcSoft let Carbine revamp the game. I hope WildStar sticks around and caters to their niche. We don't need that absurd 12+ million "subscribers" to have a healthy and active MMO. Subscribers in quotes because someone who pays for an hour in a single month is apparently a "subscriber" in Acti-Blizzard finanacial records and noted on there (finally) after many shareholder complaints. Even back in the day, the big names of Everquest and Anarchy Online and Dark Age of Camelot were doing less than a million each but they have tons of profit and content and happy players that like that niche. If we even have close to a million people paying every month, then that should be seen as a good thing. I only hope NcSoft can understand that. | |} ---- Oh I agree completely. Being in my mid 30's it just feels like it's moved into this weird situation where people are allergic to taking blame. Honestly I love being wrong. I love making mistakes. I love it because mistakes are how you learn to better yourself. It just seems like a pattern these days where everyone believes they are already the best. If you believe you are the best then you'll stunt your growth. Simple mechanics that require attention immediately become impossible walls because "I'm the best, so if I can't do it on the first try then something is wrong with the content and not with my approach to it". Of course I'm not targeting anyone here, it's just been a general observation I've seen over the past years. That's why I like Wildstar, and why I'm sticking with it rain or shine. Because this is one game out of a million that say "No, you aren't the best. Get better". Things are a lot easier these days since F2P, but there is still some challenge left that I enjoy :) Edited December 9, 2015 by Frosthaven | |} ---- In terms of that, my ex-wife was almost pro at Go. I was playing up to a 3d level when i quit. Game has 4 rules, but is probably most difficult game in existence. | |} ---- Perhaps people don't like to accept the blame because of the torrent of abuse that might result? There's a lot of intolerant a$$hats in MMOs and gaming in general, people who are very quick to spray personal insults, vitriol and kick demands around soon as someone messes up. They're a vocal minority but there's enough to make running into one of them quite likely, especially in a PUG environment. All MMOs have them, but the harder the content the more likely it is someone will kick off. I've always believed in admitting my mistakes and I'm the first to hold my hand up if I've messed up. In a guild or friends group the response is almost always something along the lines of "don't worry, it happens, let's try again". in a PUG I've seen some insane behaviour and with voice chat enabled heard people literally screaming down the microphone. Not usually at me I should hasten to add, I'm not that terrible - or am I just no accepting the blame? ;) An often used excuse used by the screamers is "you're wasting my time". Well, then don't join a PUG and find some reliable friends to play with, see if they will tolerate that attitude. Essentially we're all wasting our precious time playing stupid video games anyway :) Whatever happened to tolerance, civility and respect? Restore that and you might find more people willing to step up to the plate when things go wrong. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Many more left after they made content require dedicated healers. HoT is not anywhere near as populated as GW2 was just a year ago. Problem that players had with GW2 was lack of build diversity. There was no reason to build tanky, because all you would do is take away from the speed that the content was cleared at, it was stupid to build conditions because of the condition cap and regular damage dealers specked for damage did conditions anyway, there was no reason to go healer because all the damage was dodgeable very easily and all you were doing was once again taking away from the damage. However everyone liked the concept of "play the way that you want to play", so when their raids came out and people were told that "you HAVE TO bring a healer", that went against everything that the game was. | |} ---- Vet Protogames should be 20-25 minutes Vet academy can be done in 14 | |} ---- But the proto dungeons still need a glory boost. They aren't long, but if people aren't motivated to do them, then the game should offer more motivation. But they have to be careful. Buff PA too much and no one will run anything else, ever. At least, not geared groups. | |} ---- Lots of us love playing the support/healer role. I would be very disappointed if this happened. Nothing wrong with the holy trinity (or... quadrinity, if you're Rift lol), especially when many people love doing the tank job or the healer job. I do agree with the general consensus in this thread that Protogames needs some additional incentive. I feel like the same could be said for the Star-Comm-related adventure they added. Oh my god it's so much fun, but no one ever runs it. -_-; The last fight is a blast. Edited December 10, 2015 by Naunet | |} ---- ---- In a pug group, nope to both of those. If you can believe it, the last time I did a full-random-pug group of vet regular academy (everyone level 10 scaled down), there was one 50 in group and even THEN it took about 2 hours to clear. Why? Because people couldn't be bothered to bring consumables for the 'dps race' at the final boss. My thing now is pretty simple. I let the pug know that I'm a '3 strikes' person. After 3 wipes on the same boss, I hop out. They can replace me with someone far more patient. Since I'm the healer, I'm hoping this gives them incentive NOT to keep wiping but to improve or bother with consumables next time. Ideally, queues would require that players have X number of medishots (or equivalent) and X number of food items in their inventory before joining a queue. Hell, ANY food item would work and it would also keep people from just vendoring the free ones they get from monster drops. There's only so much that the devs can do though. Go too strict and people don't bother to even queue. I'm not sure what people have been going on about low-level queues not popping. They pop in under 5 mins (usually under 2 mins most times) every time. EDIT: Regular, not vet Edited December 10, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- ---- This would not be vet academy- this would be normal academy. The DPS race at the end, last time I experienced it, was a bit overtuned, imo. I doubt you are providing any more incentive than the game already has. But you are probably stressing people out. LOL @ Requiring consumables in a dungeon. | |} ---- Leader is a bad idea. Hey, I don't like you, kick. -Agreed -haha, no. 15 minutes is a pretty long time, especially on a crash or dc. Hour would make someone not even run them again. Trying to get people to run things, not to dont do it. -So because my group of 4 don't want to run this specific instance, and doing random for hte extra bonus of doing random's, should get deserter? -They do get a deserter debuff for leaving if I recall. Idk, would like an "extra" reward for a group instead of doing a random and having ot disband. | |} ---- Okay, yeah, I'm glad this wasn't just me. xD I thought I was going insane. There's no veteran Academy. | |} ---- There *is* veteran academy- but it's very, very different from normal. | |} ---- If the group is undergeared or otherwise unable to handle the DPS burst at the end, then yes it IS required. Corrected, I mentioned academy and that it was the level 10 one but derped on writing vet instead of Normal. I don't know why it is 'LOL' to require consumables for group content. How is that funny? Many players aren't able to keep up with gear or runes while leveling to 50. So prior to 50, food buffs can make a distinct and useful difference for the group content. My suggestion would only apply to the queues and not to manually going there and entering yourselves. If it isn't acceptable to get the deserter debuff for disbanding, then don't random queue. If it isn't acceptable to possibly get an instance you don't want to run, then don't random queue. The rewards should come with some risk. There is zero risk with the current setup and newbies in queue having to deal with selfish people spamming vote-disband is the problem. Let the newbies queue with other newbies while the speedrunners/vets should stick to making their own groups. Get 5 people together, queue up, get your glory as you like. Don't have to spit on newbies to get your shinies :P Leader isn't a bad idea because the current setup lets someone (the leader or others) be as toxic as they like unless you can convince EVERYONE else to agree to the vote. Trying to get strangers to agree on much of anything is like pulling teeth. Letting people queue as leader and doing the kicks themselves would mitigate this somewhat. | |} ---- ---- Isn't that just Ultimate Protogames, though? The other poster made it sound like there is both "vet" Protogames and "vet" Academy, which is not the case. Done that dungeon a bazillion times and never have felt the need to eat food - or ask others to do so. I don't think I've ever used consumables outside of raid nights, actually. Though I'm kind of amused at the thought of "undergeared" for a level 10 dungeon. Unless you're vendoring all the quest rewards instead of equipping them and going in with the arkship gear, there's no way that's possible. | |} ---- ---- ---- Here's a radical idea. Don't join random queues with randoms. Make a group of your own and be sure to tick the 'dont search for other players' box. Bingo, done, your problems are solved and everything is sunshine and cupcakes. In every single queue system on every single MMO you have people who just queue up and expect to steamroll through it. Let them learn without troubling your pretty little dino head about it. You stick to your stuff and the rest of us can stick to the random queues to help others or to receive help. We don't need you or anyone with an attitude like that in random queues, so kindly slag off. Let the newbies learn by trial and error if that's how they like. Lower level stuff isn't as gear-intensive as you make it out to be. F2P happened and the vets have driven away enough players. It is about time someone called you and others like you out on it. Edited December 11, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- Wierd forum error with multiquoting, gonna seperate this post then. Feel free to do solo queues for a few nights and get a better feel for how things are outside of your tiny circle of friends. As an added bonus, try to do all of it without any voice comm or extensive explanations, just like a real pug! :P Edited December 11, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- Says the person who thinks people should be expected to bring food to a leveling dungeon. >_>; | |} ---- That's exactly what I did with my warrior alt from level 10-20. Dunno what to tell you :/ | |} ---- ---- Food that drops off of quest mobs like candy. Having those extra stats really does help out sometimes, especially with undergeared puggers. It shouldn't be considered unreasonable for a newbie to at least hold onto all the free food they're getting while questing but maybe even that might be too much to ask hmm? Presuming they don't have access to the AH and don't have the minimal few copper/silver to grab one or two from a nearby General Goods vendor, the free food dropped from mobs is still free. Edited December 11, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- Nope- they added a veteran version of Academy. now there is UPG and PA at level 50. | |} ---- Wat really? How did I miss this... the heck? xD When did that happen haha. You still don't realize the contradiction in your assertions, I see. I'll vendor all food that drops from mobs just for you. :p (Well I was already doing that because money, but now...!) | |} ---- ---- yes lets make all the vets change the way they play because poor babies cant handle it. Expecting others to carry your weight is pathetic. Not our fault new players cant handle being kicked from content they are ready for. how about new players queue with friends so vets don't have to put up with the whiny bullshit | |} ---- Oh gosh, I'm so glad people like you are the exception instead of the norm..........sadly this game will fall victim to your kinds stupidity. Enjoy sitting next to City of Heroes assbag. | |} ---- yup the stupidity that makes the guides that your people need because they cant understand basic mechanics and stats. yea *cupcake*my kind Edited December 13, 2015 by Ufalicious | |} ---- I'd call you pathetic, but that would be unkind and largely irrelevant to this setting. My point is proven by the state of this game and the perception people have of it. Most people work all day, very few want to come home and continue that in a video game. That being said I can understand the desire for a type of game to fill the void left by unemployment/laziness. | |} ---- Why are you so angry? You just went on a comment posting spree and I can't help but notice you are one negative dude. Maybe you should like, watch some cartoons and eat some ice cream or something and just relax. | |} ---- wow hahaha such salt wow. broski, i work enough for 2 "fulltime" jobs... stop assuming that people having diligence somehow translates to unemployment... it's more likely the opposite, trust me - my friends are a broad spectrum financially and their gaming habits are just about as dedicated as their work habits. if you don't want to put in time and energy NEWS FLASH, MMORPGS ARENT FOR YOU. there are SOOOOOO many instant gratification game genres out there... so PLS. bring the tears somewhere else. | |} ---- ---- ---- Nobody said anything about instant gratification...........I spent my fair share of time in Pre-Kunark/Kunark era of EQ. However the assholes that feel the need to impose their elitism on others do increase my salinity, yes. There's a fine line which games in this genre need to walk, and it should be BLATANTLY obvious that WS is not there. The gameplay is fun, content is entertaining, and the polish is compartively strong vs. other F2P and even pay models. So what does that leave out? Accessability, the end-game of WS consists of very punishing content to new/casual/unskilled........there is barely anything for that subset of players and like it or not they make of the majority of gamers today. What some people fail to realize is that you can have a very healthy mix of both. The most clear example of this concept I can think of is WoW's Wrath of the LK xpac, where you saw each group adequately rewarded for their relative level of effort/skill. What happened to the game after is a debate for the ages, but denying the design formula's effect is just ignorant. I don't need to argue this point anymore because it should be relatively clear after the cliff-like population dropoff post F2P. | |} ---- ---- No you did not hurt my feelings, in fact I'm cracking a smile at your arrogance. You seem like one of those gym class all-stars, so congratulations at be steller at a fading game! | |} ---- Thats funny i don't see any "Burn casuals at the stake" threads but i sure as hell see a lot of elitist bashing from people who don't even know what the word means. See a guy in raid gear #elitist full pvp gear #elitist does more dps than you #elitist doesn't have time to baby you #elitist. I wonder if that had to do with this shit job carbine did with the launch or the actual game itself. But hey us #elitist totally didn't tell carbine the servers weren't ready or anything nope we didn't do that | |} ---- By feeling the need to come back and try to prove something to us its pretty obvious you got your feelings hurt #wurf | |} ---- ---- I have very little to comment on the difficulty subject reletive to myself since what I've run has been fine. That being said, I fancy myself in the average to above-average section of MMO players so what my experience is may vastly differ from anothers. Also, you are grossly incorrect with your assessment and facts on my statement. Burning Crusade is the game most commonly compared to WS's difficulty and raiding genre. It was difficult, mind-numbling so at the very end (Sunwell).......to the point that only a small percentile of players actually got to even experience that content. The Wotlk expansion solved the accessability problem by intorducing a greater variety of difficulty levels. That expac saw the largest increase in consistant player volume, as well as it's peak subscriber #. Changes towards the end of the xpac and the following xpac are what I assume you are referring to, to which I will restate my previous comment....."there is a line which MMO's need to walk". Also, if you are going to argue that the reason there is more people watching and streaming "Mario Sunshine" that Wildstar was the server issues at F2P release, well then I've apparently just wasted my time arguing with a potted plant. Edited December 13, 2015 by Vahlen I | |} ---- ---- | |} ---- never heard anyone compare this games difficulty to BC wow, but okay. I don't think it's insanely difficult, I think it's just more ACTIVE. you have to pay MORE attention to what you're doing - but wow's mechanics largely relied on GEAR so difficulty here wasn't exactly clear... if you had the drops before you attempted the raids it would be a whole different story... would simply just be a learning curve of the fights... but they masked gear gating with content being "hard'. so cherry pick some weird difficulty comparison argument when the fact is, wow went for more accessibility, and in doing so has literally watched their game go from a strong 10-12mill to a 5 million and dropping. | |} ---- you know he's too young to get that, not fair! elitist! | |} ---- ---- Sure, maybe a little more than that. Thing is though, a lot of vets have been in this situation before and seen the impact multiple threads of "gem ded?" have had on the community both on the forums and in game. It's not ignrance, it's more talking from bitter experience. In fact, even as someone who has played for over a year, the emergence of tonnes of these threads, plus some of the attitudes of new members (a lot of other players, as well as myself didn't spend lots of time making guides for newbies for no reason, we WANT people to play) has made me want to quit playing. The oldest part of the community is already giving up, and sure they have enough reason to, but I know the after effects of all of these threads and discussions about "ded gem". We've seen it all before, we know what is going to happen already. In order to try and improve retention, having a more positive atmosphere in the community, especially on things new players would check out first, such as the forums and reddit, is a massive way to help players be more intersted in sticking around. I know if I was a new player looking through these forums, just looking at the titles of some of the threads would be enough to put me off. Also, even though it's not our job as a community, some of us need to try and DO something about the state of the game, by way of reporting it to the devs through tickets or redphone, advertising the game to our friends and on social media Of course, I'm nearly at the end of my patience. I've played... since closed beta. And I'm really thinking that this is the end for me pretty soon. I can't watch the forums and the community dissolve again, and I can't watch the game I enjoyed for so long just completely fizzle out again. Maybe it is time for me to move on, who knows. | |} ---- False causality. There are many issues with Wildstar but content accessibility is not one of them. If it were the case we'd see a higher population retained than initial release because content is much much more accessible now. What you see as a problem is actually your lack of compatibility with this game; you are not the target audience. It should be perfectly fine to have one MMO that doesn't target everyone but many people have been determined to prove that false which is why some defending the game can seem hostile or rude. It may be your first time arguing for change but for them its one of hundreds that they've had to deal with and its usually the same argument over and over. Its very tiring having to constantly defend your style of enjoyment from those that casually check out the game and then proceed to lecture on why they believe its not wildly successful. Edited December 13, 2015 by Daluu | |} ---- While this may sound like a valid defense of the game's design to you, to me it sounds like someone proclaiming the game to be following a design philosophy that is guaranteed to drive it out of business. This game cannot afford to declare that its target audience doesn't include casual players and you are not doing it any favors when you do so on its behalf. It would be fine to have one MMO that is all about the hardcore, if there were in fact enough hardcore players to actually support that game. That means a game that either has a large budget and attracts a large population, or a game that has a small budget and attracts a small population. This game did not have a small budget, and it is in no position to cater predominantly to a small subpopulation that tells everyone else that they aren't the target audience for the game, just for the monetization. The reason you keep seeing the same argument is because it is fundamentally correct whether you like it or not, and whether the devs like it or not. Enough people have to stick around to pay the bills, and that doesn't happen in a game that is designed to communicate to most of its potential customers that they are not its target audience. | |} ---- ---- ---- The part in green does not allow you to conclude the part in red, sorry. The part in green says that when there's no real difference in quality between two choices, people will still pick one as better than the other if you ask them to do so. That is completely different from the statement in red, which says that even when there IS a real difference in quality between two choices, people can't identify which one is objectively better. Consumers are not idiots, and they understand perfectly well when a product is trying to force them into doing something they don't particularly want to do. | |} ---- ---- I don't want to know how amazingly incompitent your DPS was to fail that check :S I mean, there is new, there is learning... that bad is probably "not trying" | |} ---- no matter how much i don't want to be elitist, there is a level of expectation. I once did an STL where I was doing comperable DPS as tank, then my healer and all my DPS died before the end of the blade-wind mid phase. We immediately disbanded. I can't carry that hard, no matter what i want to do. A warrior doing 5k DPS while cleaving? How sad is that? | |} ---- ---- Then ..you haven't seen me jumping xD | |} ---- This is a misrepresentation. No study has ever concluded that consumers are unable to make their own decisions or determine the quality of a product. Further, drawing conclusions about trends in music is a whole different animal than drawing conclusions about leisure activities. People really do know what they like to spend their time doing and that includes the gaming community. Like anyone else engaging in their hobby they're going to spend their time playing something they enjoy. But it does have to be accessable. Equine sports are immensely fun but not popular because they're unaccessable to most people, either through skill or money. There are a ton of reasons why an MMO fails or succeeds but being "in fashion" isn't one of them. When SWTOR first released everyone flocked to that game. It was the height of popularity before anyone could even click the accept button on the character creation screen. Players abandoned it just as quickly - not because it fell out of "fashion" but because it was a pile of shit. Conversely, World of Warcraft continued to attract more and more players for as long as they stuck to their formula. Unfortunately, they looked at "trends" in gaming and completely lost sight of what MMO players log on for. That game is in trouble but the same can be said of the entire MMO genre. And it's not because of a fickle and trendy audience. Hell, the fact that over ten million people converged on Warlords of Draenei with the hype that WoW was returning to its roots shows that idea to be absolutely false. Players still love their MMO's, and they're hungry for a good one. Accessability isn't everything, of course. WoW has always been accessable and that was part of their draw. But there's more to an MMO than that. There are Facebook and app games and Korean grinds, and then there are true MMO's. The former are time fillers. The latter is a rich, immersive accessable world filled with adventure and variety. Gamers want to feel like they've gone somewhere when they log out. WoW did itself no favors by following "trends" and releasing world of garrisonville. App games are played while waiting in the dentist's office. Their popularity should be seen for what it is and not even considered when designing an MMO. Carbine isn't the only studio that needs to wake up. The entire genre is pretty much garbage due to lack of innovation, ignorance and plain greed. Edited December 13, 2015 by Bodicca | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- IT IS! Stop spouting this nonesense about raids not being accessible for pugs. They are being pugged daily as we speak. And for guilding/grouping up. It's a MMORPG, Massive MUltiplayer Online, Roleplaying Game. You're supposed to be teaming up with other people to clear problems. Whether you do this as guild, group, pug, circle, party is totally up to you. But people have this ridculous idea in their head that this game is ment to be played solo on all levels. It's not. Simply accept that fact and move on. Want to play something solo, go for a single player game, MOBA, RTS or FPS. Edited December 13, 2015 by Olivar | |} ---- What, WS isn't a singleplayer game? OMG apocalypse! | |} ---- I know, apparently really hard concept for some to wrap their head around. | |} ---- To be fair, this shouldn't be happening in the first place. It's only because TT insists on implementing a archaic group finder system (to match the raid system) with no gearscore req that this is even a problem at all. | |} ---- Restricting people from content due gear is a bad idea as well. Final Fantasy XIV is notorious for this. 1 ilvl too low? Too bad, you ain't doing this dungeon. As if it will make a difference. The biggest problem is not the gear people have, it's the mentality. Sure, a viable minimum on gear would be nice and recommended for everyone, but the biggest problem is two-fold: People not interupting during the dungeon run People not having a clue, which is normal, but refusing to ask for help Even with ilvl 120 gear in every slot, if you are in one of those 2 categories, you will not run through a dungeo. Period. And you can make whatever group finder system for that as you want, it's not going to solve the problem. | |} ---- ----